Rotten to the Corps: A Question of Justice at Texas A&M

We have 2 daughters as well as a son-in-law who have graduated from A&M. This incident, probably not isolated if rumor is to be believd, diminishes all the progress made from the all male, Corps dominant reputation which caused my own father from forcibly discouraging our eldest daughter from transferring to A&M in her soph year. She did anyway and she and her youngest sister were proud to be "former Aggies".
In a post-graduate visit ot A&M with her new husband this youngest daughter experienced her husband being beaten up by some males, no known affiliation to the corp, no charges filed.
Is College Station (A&M) a safe destination for students of the " non_Corps" persuasion?

I have known Zach all of my life. He is one of my dearest friends and has always been like a brother to me. It is an absolute tragedy that Zach was caught in this situation. He wore a patch over his eye for SIX MONTHS!!! To hear Helle's and Ramirez's attorney call them victims is absurd. They literally crushed Zach's face in. Do you know what kind of beating that requires?

However, ss someone who is in the legal field, and a practicing attorney in Corpus Christi, I feel that the way in which ATM and the District Attorney's Office addressed the issues involved is even more outrageous. Total disregard for justice... Total lack of care for innocent people.

The Corcorans are a great family and have never done anything to hurt anyone. They simply want answers and have been denied them for even the simplest of questions.

I have total disgust for ATM. I will never allow my children to attend that "hell school." It lies in the pit of Texas and I wish it would fall into oblivion. Let them keep their damn dog and all that comes with it. If this situation rings true of how the school and surrounding community treat victims, I want no part of it.

I am appalled in reading this story. I have always been so proud to be an A&M grad. and this story truly challenges those once positive feelings that I have had toward the university. The pictures of Zach are overwhelming and anyone with commonsense can see that was no "just a fight." This situation is only negative press for texas A&M. Standing up for what is Justice and what is right would only serve to benefit the university.

What happened to that young man is a tragedy. But instead of calling it what it was: A&M students get into a fight where alcohol is involved, the well respected newpaper known as the houston press decides to pin it on the Corps. I wonder if this same reputable newpaper goes around and reports on all of the bar fights in Houston. What is the difference? I bet some of the injuries are just as bad, if not worse, unfortunately. Just because these guys had something in common then there must be a huge conspiracy. How many alcohol related fights go unpublished? Seems like the Corps is a little too easy of a scapegoat to any educated person. The Corps is a military organization that teaches leadership and character but some people have further to go than others, obviously. The fact that the organization exists to try to instill these qualities is the difference that A&M offers. It is what makes A&M different than other schools. Unless you have been through it, it is difficult to understand. Please do not judge the Corps for the actions of two students. All people make mistakes, and I'm sure that those two guys weren't the only ones making them that night.

After reading this article my feelings for Texas A&M have changed a lot.Allowing these 2 guys to get off the hook with no punishment is an outrage.

I am a long time friend of Zach’s and just looking at those pictures and knowing it all started because of a pair of sunglasses makes me sick to my stomach. You know usually the ones that are THAT homophobic are just in denial… ;)

I graduated from A&M in 2006 and reading this story disgusts me. I hope he gets the justice he deserves for his sake and A&M’s.

Zach, I and am so proud of how far you have come and how courageous you have been in these past two years. Those guys have to wake up every morning knowing what they did and that is something no judge can dismiss.

who ever made that **** comment about houston press pinning it on the corp. no offense but the corp is probably one of the least respected groups post year 2000. their lack of respect for classes, females, morals, public standards, and most of all what is right and wrong. God help those two unfortunate souls that did this to zach. they may have gotten off clear and free this time but their justice on years to come will come back to haunt them. corp of cadets at aTm has gone in a downward spiral, this is one of the few instances that goes public, but their are many others just like it that put shame to the name of the corp at texas a&m.......commanding officers at texas a&m, how about you start demanding respect and dedication from you members otherwise why do it??????????? ......pathetic and disgusting is all i have to say about texas a&m university in handling this situation..... I am class of dec. 2006 and cannot begin to explain how sad i am that this happened and the university i once thought so highly of could let honor, integrity, justice, respect slip right through the cracks because of some alterior motive.

all i can say is WOW

-adam

What happened here is atrocious. As a graduate of Texas A&M, I am still shocked that to this day nothing has happened to the 2 students involved in the assault. I have been a close friend of Zach's for over 10 years and I have always known him to be an honest person. He has never started a fight with anybody. It is not in his nature.

It is just so easy to say that you cannot blame Texas A&M and the Corps for the actions of two students. Agreed. However, you can blame the University and the Corps for their refusal to take action. Where is the accountability in society today? We are so worried about protecting the rights of the accused, but what about the rights of the victims? The attorney suggested that they should pursue a civil suit. This is not a case about money. It is about justice. Of course the Corcorans keep saying that they want justice. What if this was your son? What would you want? Would you want anyone to suffer as much as Zach did?

To all of my fellow Aggies out there, what are we so proud of? A&M preaches and prides itself on the traditions and unity of the student body. When something like this it happens it shows that A&M does not practice what it preaches. A&M only practices its' philosophies when it favors the school. What a great life lesson to teach the two Corps members. Just throw some money around to the right people and you can get away with anything.

It is time someone wrote about this situation. I witnessed Zach's face 16 hours after his assault, it was nearly unrecognizable. I have known Zach since birth and he is a good, fun-loving kid. I realize boys fight, especially when alcohol is involved, but this was more that just a fight, it was a brutal unfair beating. It took one boy to hold him down and the other to smash his face in. What's fair about that? Check out the bruises to his neck where he was held! I have known John and Tricia Corcoran for a long time and they are very kind, generous people that adore their sons. They could care less about receiving any money from this incident. All they wanted was to see some fair punishment for this CRIME, and some answers why this case mysteriously went away!. Would any good parent want anything less?

I thank the author of the article. The two that committed the crime should be in jail. Justice was not served here.

Zach should file a civil suite against the ones that committed the beating.

George

Why does A & M even have student codes??? How does the attorney Brown have the nerve to say to a grad. senior to change universities?? Why will the corp guys not go to trail if they do not have anything to hide?!? It's ( A & M ) just a huge corporation making $$$$$, big $$$$$ without the interest of the student!!!! What's with the ego of that Bryan guy, Mask and Kuboiak ???? One would think to get rid of the bad apples in the corp would be a good thing instead of protecting them. Don't ask my son or daughter to serve with them in battle!!

The poweres that be realize that these two thugs are just what the military desires and creates. They also realize recruiting is becoming difficult because young people are beginning to realize their govt. is corrupt. So of course, they will be protected, they are "heros".

Thanks to the author, the editor and the newspaper for publishing this piece. I hope this story gets more and more coverage so that the Corcorans, who were blatantly and unjustly wronged by the politics surrounding the Corps and A&M, in addition to the actions of the two criminals, can receive justice. It is sad that in this day and age people can do things like this and get away with it so completely. What kind of a coward holds a man down and lets his friend pound that man's face in for such a benign remark? The same kind of coward who dismisses the case for no reason because of political pressure, all in the name of the A&M family. It just makes me sick that a nice family like the Corcorans have to go through something like this and can not even have their day in court because "my boys" should be above the law. Nice work, A&M.

It is unfortunate victims are not protected by Texas A&M University or the legal system in the state of Texas. It is not unreasonable to want to go for justice by a jury trial when your child has sustained permanent injuries. Jim Kuboviak dismissed this case in the " interest of justice". It seems to me from reading this article that he is afraid of justice. Texas A&M is afraid of justice. I hope the Corcoran family continues to pursue justice for their son since the people appointed to that job seemed to have failed. Thank-you Paul Knight for writing this story and to the Houston Press for publishing it.

"IN THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE". Who came up with that line and WHY? Is it that easy to get a case with merit dismissed? If this article is correct, and I assume it would not have been published otherwise, justice wasn't served for anyone involved. No one wants to put a black mark on Texas A&M, it is a great University. I imagine that it is also painful for Mr. Corcoran to acknowledge that the school that he has loved and supported so dearly, is not willing to give him an explanation why they dismissed the charges. The Corcorans are entitled to know, they have felt the brunt of the physical and emotional pain and financial loss. As far as Eddie and Steven(WEIGHT LOSS AND ANXIETY)EXCUSE ME, that doesn't count!! What do they expect after what they did to Zach, get a medal. Maybe someone should take a close look at the DA who felt compelled to dismiss the case just before trial. Who has enough influence to get it dismissed (The attorneys? The University? The other families?). Something doesn't seem right here. Does somebody have something to hide? Doesn't Zach deserve his day in court so he can let it go, regardless of the verdict? Why not let a jury, not the DA, decide if his assault warrants punishment for the other boys. When has it come to a point in our society that kids are not deemed accountable for their behavior? Something has to give, and I think the victim has lost his rights by being denied this trial. Someone needs to stand up and take another look at this case.

As a graduate of Texas A&M and having grown up in Corpus Christi, I am OVERLY apalled by this situation. Through the grapevine I had heard of Zach's incident but never the details and surrounding issues of the case. I cannot believe the utter disdain and lack of respect, honor, and honesty the University and the legal system of the Brazos County have put forth in this instance. I am forever changed by the actions or should I say lack of actions of the local judicial system. I hope Zach and his family continue to fight for the justice he rightly deserves.

Some pinhead wrote: "I wonder if this same reputable newpaper goes around and reports on all of the bar fights in Houston. What is the difference? I bet some of the injuries are just as bad, if not worse, unfortunately. Just because these guys had something in common then there must be a huge conspiracy. How many alcohol related fights go unpublished? Seems like the Corps is a little too easy of a scapegoat to any educated person. The Corps is a military organization that teaches leadership and character but some people have further to go than others, obviously. The fact that the organization exists to try to instill these qualities is the difference that A&M offers. It is what makes A&M different than other schools. Unless you have been through it, it is difficult to understand. Please do not judge the Corps for the actions of two students. All people make mistakes, and I'm sure that those two guys weren't the only ones making them that night."

The difference is that people who victimize others by committing crimes of assault with serious intent are prosecuted and usually to the full extent of the law if and when they're identified. This was no ordinary fight. Anyone who beats a person to the point that this young man was, obviously intended to do permanent and serious damage if not worse. And in the name of all that's holy, don't try and pin their actions on some type of military training. As the widow of a career Marine who was, I can assure you, a lot saltier and tougher than any Aggie cadet, I can tell you that the military also teaches self-discipline. The young man who in my mind bears the greater burden of guilt wasn't in a war zone - he was in his sister's livingroom! He acted out of spite, ego and viciousness and should be punished.

I would also like to address the comment about the young man's family needing counseling. That is a load of pig crap from the mouth of an apathetic loser. I say bully for you! If Zach was my son, brother or friend, I would be just as tenacious and determined in my desire for justice to see that these young men are punished in accordance and appropriately for the crime they committed - and make no mistake - what they did to Zach was a crime. God bless you, Zach.

The University of Aggy is, and has always been, an embarrassment to the state of Texas.

What an eyeopener!!! How can a University of such magnitude sweep something like this under the rug? If they can't do anything about this case, they need to explain WHY to the Corcorans. They deserve that. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable request. I don't understand what happened to the legal case Brazos County was putting together. Why did it SUDDENLY get dismissed just days before the trial, after so many hours were spent preparing for it and appointing a special prosecutor? Something's fishy here, go figure! Who pulled the rug off from under them? I hope the DA sleeps well at night knowing he dropped the ball on this case! I don't think I would be any less tenacious than the Corcorans in trying to prosecute the 2 cowards that held their son down and beat his face to a pulp. Good parents are like that!! A good old fashion one on one bar room fight is not the same as this brutal assault, and it needs to go to trial. Are we teaching our kids they are "above the law" if we have the right strings to pull? Is that how we were raised, I think not? It should be the same for everyone, you do the crime, you do the time. I wonder what the DA's take on this case would be, if it were his son or grandson. Would it still be "IN THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE", (what a crock), to dismiss the case. I would hope not. Maybe after the elections in March, they will get someone in office who cares about the victims rights, more than politics. This case needs to be reviewed again, justice was not served and the Corps comes off looking bad. It basically is wrong to the core... An Embarrassed Aggie

While I am sorry that this guy got his face smashed in, how about he take a little personal responsibility? He was drunk and started talking smack to two huge dudes. Does he really not expect to get his ass kicked? You can't go around acting like you are a big shot and not have the skills to back it up, or you end up getting your face messed up. When I don't want to get my assed kicked, I keep my mouth shut. When I am willing to get into a fight, I speak up.

Prayers to Zach and his family. As hardcore as I am about the University of Texas, I couldn't possibly fathom not wearing my ring and losing all pride with my beloved school. Rivalry aside, I'm not at all surprised with how things are run in College Station. I've been up there to party on several occasions and those dorks run around like they own the place.

Perhaps the student body should rise up. A&M needs to deal with change, because it’s happening. These 2%'ers are coming in year by year in larger numbers. Soon enough, the school on the Brazos won't need the corps to protect the Aggie Spirit because they're killing it.

The pimply faced geeks who play GI Joe on campus are destroying what being an Aggie is all about. I don't know exactly what that is, but to my aggie friends it is everything in the world to them.

Hook'em

Good going Dove! Sounds like that pinhead thinks more of the university, than he does of the victim. Wonder if he has sons, probably not, probably can't relate, probably puffed up ego. Hate to break his bubble, but not everyone thinks the corps or A&M is so wonderful, they have thugs too, and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with crimes under the umbrella of the university. Just no way that is right..Wrong..Wrong..Wrong..Every victim deserves his day in court. This is America...

You drink,and fight you stand a good chance of getting your butt whipped. Sounds like this is what happened, except Zach can't get over it and get on with his life. You'd think before messing with the Corps....this is what our Military is made of.

Looks like Nate and Patti can't read. Re-read the story and get your facts straight before you post another ignorant comment....a fair fight is not when one guy is holding you down and the other is punching you. Any monkey can win a fight when the other guy is held down unable to defend himself. If they were Real Men they could fight without the other one's help...hmmmm looks pretty gay to me

Sorry Patti, but I dont think our military is made up of school yard bully's that take 2 to 1 advantage over civilians! From those I've known, they are pretty great people. You are right on drinking and fighting, but this case is more than just a friday night fight, it was booked as an assault, going to trial with merit, then poof it went away! Wonder who has that kind of clout to make it happen. Smells like a rat to me. In America we still have freedom of speech, and shouldn't have to endure $60,000 in medical bills to exercise that right, not even in Aggieland. Assault is assault, no matter what spin you try to put on it. Why do you think the thugs were so scared, they knew they were in major trouble. Case needs to be reviewed, no DA has the right to deny anyone, with any case, from his day in court if he wants it. You would want yours, you are entitled to it as well.

The father is/was right in fighting for his son as hard as he has. The ATM should be ashamed for giving in to pressure and trying to sweep this under the rug. Claiming FERPA rights is ridiculous in this case. What a sad state of affairs the CORP has become. Shameful indeed.

Editor

As a proud graduate of the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets class of 2004, thank you for publishing the most lop-sided and liable article that I have ever read in what you consider a newspaper. Your article presents my beloved Corps as a hateful and malicious organization. The actions of two cadets do not give your publication the right to present these actions as the actions of the rest of members of the Corps and graduates of the Corps. This is an individual court case, the Corps members or graduates took no part in these legal proceedings.
In addition, the Commandant of the Corps and the University did punish the two young gentlemen. Does probation ring a bell? I am very sure that is considered a form of punishment. Also, this is not a cut and dry legal dispute, as none are, so it should not be presented in that fashion.

Furthermore, what did the Cavalry and recruiting have to do with this particular case?
First of all, those members of the Cavalry were severly punished by the Corps, the University and some were charged in the Court of Law.
Second, read the news, all of Branches of the U.S. military and military organizations (Aggie Corps, the Citadel) are having a hard time with recruiting members.
This article is obviously an out-right attack on The Aggie Corps, Texas A&M University, me and my Corps buddies.

-Jonathan McBride
Texas A&M Corps of Cadets Class of 2004

I would like to respond to # 23 Patti. I question the comment "You'd better think before messing with the Corps... this is what the military is made of" . The grandfather of this child served honorably in our US military for four years. I am a US citizen and respect our military and do not feel they would do this to another human being. do you really believe this is what our military is made of?

1913 - 466 students expelled for horse whipping freshmen (keep in mind, there were only a couple thousand students at the time).

1946 - The Fish Drill team was moved off campus to protect them from corps hazing.

1984 - A grand jury indicted four Texas A&M University students today on misdemeanor criminal charges in the DEATH of a Corps of Cadets member who died after being rousted from bed and forced to perform "motivational exercises." The charges were filed in the death of Bruce Goodrich.

1991 - William H. Mobley, the university president, appointed a committee it investigate after several women complained that they had suffered abuse from male cadets who resent their presence in the corps. The panel stated:

"In our view, these acts are much more pervasive than statements by corps leaders would indicate. There appear to be more than a 'few bad apples' and the excuse that 'boys will be boys' is not acceptable. What is most disturbing is that some of these are not even recognized as acts or harassment and discrimination!"1995 - On Saturday night my roommates, some friends from out of town and I attended a Halloween party. It was a costume party on a ranch, and we thought it would be fun to dress up and go. When we got there the first thing we saw was a group of boys dressed up like members of the Ku Klux Klan...It was a Corps party, and the impression made by some of the cadets was abominable...Had it been anyone in the city dressed up this way, I would have been offended, but these guys were obviously in the Corps
-- from a letter that appeared in The Battalion, Nov. 2, 1995 signed by six people

1997 - Six Texas A&M University cadets have been indicted on 60 misdemeanor counts after accusations they beat, tortured and humiliated freshmen over five months beginning in November.

Fish drill team was disbanded in 1997 after upperclassmen physically assaulted a freshman. Nine upperclassmen were suspended from the Corps for hazing.

1998 - members of the Corps of Cadets who assaulted a freshman female Corps member at a bonfire site have been identified, the cadets who attacked the woman were acting under instructions from a male sophomore cadet. The female cadet was physically assaulted at a bonfire site Oct. 31 when two male cadets tackled her and began to 'punch her with closed fists,' according to the police report.

1999 - 20 active participants in a hazing are investigated concerning the assault of a former freshman Corps of Cadets member, an 18 year old woman. [did they not learn anything the year before?]

1999 - A student lost a testicle because of a “wedgie”.

2002 - 23 students from the Parsons Mounted Cavalry - a student commander in the Cavalry reported that hazing had occurred. The offenses ranged from beatings with ax handles to throwing a mixture of horse manure and water on students who had misbehaved.

2002 - Stephen Brockman, a member of Texas A&M's Corps of Cadets, arrested for attacking a Nebraska fan after the NU - A&M football game.

2002 - 77 cadets from the university's elite Parsons Mounted Cavalry singled out for punishment after 300 blows with ax handles on 27 sophomore cadets.

2002 - COLLEGE STATION, Texas (AP) - Texas A&M University police are investigating about a dozen photos found at the yearbook office which show students, believed to be members of the Aggie Band, naked, gagged and bound with duct tape.

2003 - Texas A&M University has suspended the prestigious Ross Volunteer Honor Corps harassing anti-war protestors. [boy, Jonathan, it sure does sound like you and your “beloved Corps” sure had a good time while you were there!]

2005 - then there’s always John Richmond Sullivan, a member of the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets and a member of the Parsons Mounted Cavalry who was arrested for flinging a shovel full of manure.

2006 - Finally, Corey Ryan Armstrong, a junior geography major and member of the Corps of Cadets Squadron 12, was released on bond after being arrested Friday at his campus dorm. Armstrong, 21, was charged with 17 counts of Internet child pornography when an Internet source provided investigators a tip that he was posting child pornography online.

"Your article presents my beloved Corps as a hateful and malicious organization."

Well Jonathan, I'd say that pretty much sums it up very nicely.

What a total disregard for human life. What is wrong with Texas A & M that they don’t have the guts to prosecute 2 Corp members for almost killing another human being over a silly comment? A & M prides itself on honor and integrity and discipline and all of these traits were ignored.
I would like to comment on Nate’s letter above. This was not a fight!! A fight involves 2 people fighting on equal terms. Zach was helpless as he was held down by Steven Ramirez, while Eddie Helle just beat him up. Helle could have very easily killed Zach. I wonder if he had, how A & M would hide that. Zach will have permanent injuries to remind him of this attack all his life. The fact that attorney Jody Mask said that “his boys” had suffered is nothing but a big joke! This was a felonious attack by 2 bullies and these boys need to be charged with the felony that they deserve. Let the courts decide.
I hope that Texas A & M will follow the legal protocol and prosecute Ramirez and Helle and hold them accountable for their actions.
I feel the Corcoran’s have every right to demand answers from the university and the Brazos County criminal justice system. The Corcoran’s are not after money - they are after justice.
I think Paul Knight should be commended for having the guts to write this article about Texas A & M and the Corp and showing all sides of the story. I just hope Texas A & M has the same kind of guts and shows that it will not stand for this kind of injustice and will charge “their boys” with felonious assault.

Marolyn,
You ask how Texas A&M might have handled it if Zach had died? Look at the comment above.

In 1984, four Corps members KILLED a man and were charged with "MISDEMEANOR criminal charges".

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

RE: Comment by Michael

Congratulations Micheal, you just showed numerous cases of how cadets were punished due to acts of misbehavior, on the comments page of an article that states that the "Corps and the University" misbehavior goes unpunished

Also, find a military organization that for over for 125 years has had no cases of hazing. Will NOT be the Marine Corps, Navy or all 3 Academies.
Ever heard of shell backing in the US Navy? Doubt you ever have been in any military organization or you went in and could not hack it and punched out.
Admit it micheal, you could not handle the Corps.

-Jonathan McBride
Corps of Cadets Graduate Class of 2004

I am very familiar with the facts of this case, and I believe that Paul Knight and the Houston Press have done a commendable job in reporting these events. I have always respected Texas A & M University (in spite of my University of Texas Law Shcool background, and I have not hesitated to recommend A&M to college age children of my friends. However, the Zach Corcoran experience (as well as other A&M situations that have come to light) has led me to seriously question the integrity of much of the A&M system and the relevance of the Corps as it exists today. I strongly support a sound military program on all major University campuses and encourage participation by young men and women who are military bound. BUT, if the program is to continue as something more than the typical ROTC type program practiced at other major universities —i.e., a Corps with its special programs, esprit de corps, segregated dormitories, etc.—it should entail mandatory military service upon graduation for all able bodied graduates (even if the needs of the service limit the active duty time). At present, the Corps is becoming a glorified substitute for a fraternity system, claiming a somewhat elitist or separatist status on campus because of a tradition that, for all practical purposes, has been abandoned by the times. The all military aspect of A&M (that turned out some of the nation's finest officers) has become-- for good or bad--relegated to history, and the co-ed non-Corps developments have helped make A&M a first class academic university in the state system. IF the Corps is to be maintained within the bigger university, participation in it should require mandatory service in the armed services for all able bodied Corps graduates. The U. S. military values officers who embody leadership attributes that include responsibility and accountability--not pseudo macho bullyism. A mandatory service commitment would lend itself to greater accountability, responsibility, and appreciation for ethical standards on the part of the “Corps” members. If the Corps (including its faculty leaders) fails to set standards that should be even superior to the school as a whole, it will become even more obsolete--a haven for bully bubba’s who, even if they do gain officer status in the armed services, will have no business leading men in our nations’ conflicts.

Jonathon:

Congratulations. You have just posted the number one reason that the rest of the state (and a good portion of your own university) absolutely hates your organization. Not only are you justifying a blatant case of assault (a "fight" requires two aggressors, not a kid on a couch getting pummeled), but you've likened the Texas A&M Corps to the Marine Corps. Tell a typical Marine that you've been through what he or she has been through, and that you're the equivalent of a United States Marine. See how they feel about that.

The Texas A&M Corps is full of frat boys in military uniforms, who more than likely joined in the first place because it was the only way they could gain acceptance to one of the least diverse, racist, and overly judgmental student bodies in the entire state. The fact that you would even begin to defend this behavior as typical and acceptable shows either a severe lack of respect for your own organization, or complete and total brainwashing. You don't seem to be short on the first; did you drink too much of the Kool-Aid down there in College Station?

I'm a freshman in the Corps this year and from my one semester in I haven't experienced or heard of any hazing incidents going on. I know I've only got a semester under my belt but I really do believe that the worst days of the Corps are past. I think if you took the number of morons in the Corps and compared it to the rest of the student body they would be pretty proportionate. The Corps has done a lot for me. I am a much more disciplined, confident, and driven person than I was when I came in. I feel like our image is highly justifiable because of actions like these but I would like everyone who's reading this to know that it is a much more professional organization than it is made out to be.

I would like to address Marolyn Smith's and Lynn's comments.

First of all Lynn, I read at least a 8th grade level. And the definition of ignorance is: lack of knowledge, learning, information. So I ask you Lynn, have you been in a fight that didn't involve wild arm flinging and hair pulling? In all seriousness, what both you and Marolyn Smith think of as a fight is really a boxing match with a referee and rules and regulations. You don't get to call time out in a actual fight. There are no rules, knives get pulled, buddies jump in, shots are fired. That is why you avoid fights by backing down when you don't think you can win the fight and really why you should avoid all fights that you can because you never know when someone is going to get hurt, maimed or killed. And that is why you try to hurt the other person who is trying to hurt you. And Marolyn, I agree with you, let the courts decide exactly what happened.

Was this a felonious attack on a poor helpless soul? No. Was it a state of Nevada sanctioned title fight? Nope. It was one guy mouthing off to two guys and those two guys beat the crap out of him. Is it fair that two took on one guy? Well he did insult both guys, so then he should be prepared to handle two guys. Maybe all of you should really think about what happened to this poor guy next time you want to act like you are tough (even when you insult people online!). I know I will.

Jonathan,
You obviously have trouble with not only reading comprehension, but with remembering what you recently typed, so I'll spell it out for you.
You said:
"Your article presents my beloved Corps as a hateful and malicious organization. The actions of two cadets do not give your publication the right to present these actions as the actions of the rest of members of the Corps and graduates of the Corps."

I pulled a few examples of "hateful and malicious" behavior that happen over and over and over. Are you not able to recognize a trend when you see it? Year after year after year, we read about it. It doesn't end. It's an institutional attitude within the corps. Do you think that because an act was "punished" that it makes it OK? Apparently, the "punishment" at Texas A&M is not much of a deterrent, because the behavior continues. (BTW, I'm not sure that you call a "misdemeanor charge" fits the crime when death is involved is what a rational person would call "punishment").

Leave it to an aggy to resort to name calling and insults when the absurdity of his arguement leaves him with nothing intelligent to say.

You patently humorous lack of knowledge of the UCMJ indicates that YOU seem to be the one who has tendered no service to our contry's military. If you had, you would know that hazing in any form is a court martialable offense and grounds for discharge for cause.

I was a student at Texas A&M University at the time that this incident occurred, and the story that was reported in this article was not accurate. At the time this occurred it was acknowledged that the fight was initiated because derogatory comments and gestures were being made by Zach to Katherine Helle and Eddie was standing up for his sister. He merely got pushed to his limits. Furthermore, when Grant and his buddies came onto campus to confront Helle, they were waiting for him outside of his dorm and had someone get him from his room. Helle was not waiting for them outside of the dorm. How would he have known that they were coming? When Helle came out of the dorm he was confronted by Grant and his friends and a fight ensued. Because Helle did not initiate this incident and was sought out by Grant, he was not at fault for this incident. There are numerous witnesses to this incident and your reporter might want to interview a credible witness. The readers of the article were very disgusted that Helle and Ramirez were not more severely punished for this incident, but the reason that they were not punished as the readers believe they should have been is because event did not occur as stated in your article. The fight was not as one sided as your article leads one to believe. If you were to gather all of the facts in the case you would realize that Eddie Helle was properly brought to justice for the crime that he actually committed. Furthermore, it is widely known that universities have limited jurisdiction for crimes that are committed off campus, thus the university cannot enforce a severe punishment for a crime that is out of their jurisdiction.

As for making derogatory statements about the Corp, I can say that his behavior is not condoned by the Corp. Hazing is no longer permitted in the Corp and anyone who is found guilt is punished and legal actions are taken against them. The Corp has evolved significantly over the years, and although hazing was once a rite of passage, it no longer is condoned by the University or the members of the Corp. Before one of your columnists rips apart a university and the organization that forms its very backbone, they need to research both sides of the story and take an impartial approach to the article. One individual in an organization of approximately 1800 cadets does not represent the values and standards of the whole group, nor does one person at a university of over forty thousand students accurately represent the entire student body and their ideals. You cannot slam Texas A&M University or The Corp of Cadets for this incident, if you seek someone to blame, blame the individuals involved.

Members of my family have been attending Texas A&M University for over seventy five years and I will not permit the distasteful actions of one columnist to tarnish the reputation of this University and disrespect the thousands of men and women from the Corp of Cadets and Texas A&M that have given their lives for our country. Go ahead and criticize this posting, but at least now you are aware of the facts.

Nate:

Two people pummeling one guy is grossly dishonorable. I suspect the meaning of 'honor' escapes your simple mind, but all U.S. military organizational codes of behavior are founded on honorable behavior. If these young men are guilty of violent bullying they should be punished period.

Justin,

Did I say it was honorable for two guys to pummel one? Did I say it was a fair fight? I said it was a real life fight. There is no honor when you are in a fight, you either win or lose.

As far as the military is concerned. Is a sniper blowing hole in people a mile away honorable? Is dropping a nuke honorable? Is carpet bombing honorable? Are civilian casualties honorable? Does the military check to see if their enemy has the same number of soldiers that are similarly equipped? War is hell and the innocent suffer the most. That is the price of war which is why it should be avoided at all costs. (However, once you start the war you annihilate your enemy, you don't police them, again why war should be avoided at all costs). And a real street fight is just a little war between two enemies. You use every advantage you have to win (or get away, which is winning).

Yeah I like to speak plainly, I can use big words if it will make you feel better about yourself. The honorable thing to do would be to walk away from an insult with your head held high, even my simple mind can fathom the vast depths and lofty peaks of that complex concept. But you know what is also honorable? Keeping your mouth shut when two huge pissed off dudes are threatening you. Now these two guys from the corps should have been the bigger men and walked away, but I am not arguing about their actions, I am trying to make the point that your mouth shouldn't write checks that your ass can't cash.

The corp is a total embarrassment to the entire state. Letting these two stay in the corp just shows they have little to no standards for membership.

A&M should be ashamed of themselves for how this whole matter was handled.

Michelle-For your own good, go back and read the article to get the facts straight !!!!Helle and Ramirez were found guilty. "The universtiy eventually found Helle and Ramirez guilty of physical abuse, along with several other violations of school codes." The grand jury indicted them on assault charges according the article. And where do you think those lovely pictures of Helle and Ramirez came from??? The pictures of Mr. Corcoran are self explanatory!!!!! It appears as though you are representing Helle and Ramirez and/or related????

It takes approximately 900-1200 ft lbs of energy to fracture the zygoma. It is hard to do with a bare fist and the nature of Zach's injury reflects otright rage.

The corps is losing membership, has been for a long time. Their reputation outside of their own ranks has been a joke for years.

The ridiculous, brutish behavior you see reflected in the 'pro-corps' comments here are a big part of it. Sure they'll go on to be in the military. They don't have a lot of other choices, really. More and more people these days are becoming less tolerant of the hate bred by those types of groups. Especially in Texas.

Besides, didn't you ever stop to think why a man would want to join a group full of men? It's not secret that fraternities are rife with homosexuals. Where else can you be around that many men ALL THE TIME? Homophobic lot they are. Wonder why?

Hahahahahaha!

I hope Zach thrives and I hope the others involved meet something called kharma very soon.

The lack of justice by the Bryan DA and court system must be address by the State or Federal government.

The Federal government will review and punish those responsible for favoring the corps.

Does anyone have the emails of the Bryan DA?

These two Texas A&M students should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! They should be put behind bars for a very long time. They should also be held accountable by the University and expelled.

Please keep in mind that the Corps of Cadets is a student club like any other on campus. It’s just the largest student club on campus. So they have their own dorms, their own cafeteria and they coordinate their activities with ROTC. It's actually a bit of a boy/girl scout camp now anyways. Contrary to popular believe, it's not run by the military. The Corps of Cadets is run by Texas A&M University. Texas A&M University does not provide combat training.

The Corps and the real military resemble each other in appearance only. That is where the similarity ends. So if the University expels these kids, they will no longer be in the Corps. They will be doing 20 years behind bars...

What is despicable about this article is that the Corps of Cadets has nothing to do with this scenario? Absolutely nothing! This is evidence of a reporter and a newspaper using sensationalism to increase circulation.

Let me also explain that I was both in the Corps and in the Military. I'm telling you - last time I visited the campus the cadets looked like a bunch of wet noodles. I actually lost some respect for the Corps when I decided to enlist rather than commission. Regardless though, I don't think the corps could hope to brainwash any children to do this. They are simply too soft.

It's not your grandfather's institution like it was in Vietnam. Any Texan that believes otherwise is deluding themselves into believing these kids are dangerous.

This incident can be lumped into the rest of incidents that include on campus crime.

-Aaron '97

This story is moving fast around the country on the internet. I hope A&M feels saving those cadets from justice was worth the public perception of A&M and the corps as becoming a misfit collection of dishonorable, hate-filled savages who know they have the establishment to back them up whenever they go too far.

Jonathan M: *snip*This article is obviously an out-right attack on The Aggie Corps, Texas A&M University, me and my Corps buddies.I rest my case.

Anyone else think it is slightly funny that they are also running a story on the Mass pillow fight at the MFA?

Little inappropriate to have pictures of a dude's beat up face and a picture of a crowd smashing each other with pillows on the same page?

I can not pretend that I am unbiased. Zach is my cousin and although I haven't seen him in many years my heart goes out to him for all the heartache he has had to face. After reading this article I am reminded how lucky I am to go to a small college where I never have to fear being unfairly attacked. I am also fortunate to go to a school with integrity. When we did have an extreme incident of violence on our campus this year my school did not give up until justice was served. I'm sure there are many incredible people that attended school with Zach and I'm sure there are many decent people in the Corps, but it is completely unfair that Zach and my other family members have had to endure this. I will definitely be sharing tis article with people my age in the university/conservatory system.

RE: Jonathan McBride's idiotic comments

Texas A&M University, the Corps of Cadets, the Bryan/College Station area and its residents, the yell leaders, the school song, the swaying in the stands, the stupid aggie rings and the ring dunk, the morons that attend the school, and every one of your idiotic traditions puts a skid mark on the state of Texas. NO ONE around the country except in B/CS and your little "aggie network" respects you or anything you're about. Y'all are the most arrogant and brainwashed mass of people I've ever witnessed. And you beg everyone to respect the Corps. They haven't been through anything compared to the REAL military; it's just an easy way to get into a big state school (McBride you're a tool).

I hope the two cadets, who are so tough they have to double team somebody to win a fight, and EVERYONE who participated in the least little act of skewing the system goes to federal prison for a long, long time. The Corcorans deserve to be righted for this huge scandal, and I hope the Corcoran family cuts all ties to A&M.

I am a very proud person. I'm proud to be a Texan. I love this state, and I hate the embarrassment A&M brings us day after day.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

I hear more stuff about Texas a&m like this than I do any other major Texas school...Baylor, Texas Tech, UT, TCU, etc. The aggies are an embarrassment to the state of Texas. And the corps is a joke, all they ever do is make themselves look stupid on national tv. This doesn't surprise me coming from them.

Nothing worse than a fake army full of people not brave enough to serve in the real army. What a bunch of losers. Why anyone would attend this "University" is beyond me. My company quit interviewing A&M grads years ago. You have to do everything for them.

Jonathan McBride:
"In addition, the Commandant of the Corps and the University did punish the two young gentlemen. Does probation ring a bell? I am very sure that is considered a form of punishment."

Probation?!? Really?!? You think probation is a worthy punishment for breaking someone's face to the point where he can't see like a normal human being? You think probation is the right punishment after x amount of dollars spent on surgeries and medical bills? You know what, I'm not surprised you come from A&M you moron.

"Your article presents my beloved Corps as a hateful and malicious organization. The actions of two cadets do not give your publication the right to present these actions as the actions of the rest of members of the Corps and graduates of the Corps."

Actually, Jonathan, the article isn't so much about the actions of two Cadets, it's about the LACK of action taken by the university and the Corps. Any two guys could go on a rampage and beat someone that bad, but the reason for the "lop-sided" article was to bring the situation into light for what it is: the university and the Corps let those two pieces of garbage completely off the hook for the beating they gave Zach, and it isn't right. For someone so proud and "intelligent" as yourself, it's amazing that I have to lay it out for you like that, Jonathan. You're an idiot.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

After reading many of the posted comments, I think people need to step back and re-read the few lines actually describing what (has been somewhat agreed on) happened that night. All parties had been drinking. Neither person was thinking 100% and the fight should have never happened. The reason was stupid, but as one comment mentioned earlier alcohol has this effect on people and bar fights (over just as stupid reasons) happen everyday.
It has not been agreed on as to who threw the first punch, but lets just assume Ramirez sees his friend fighting with some other guy. No one likes to see a friend being hit. Most people I know would jump in and help their buddy. The story states that Ramirez was able to break them apart and hold Zach down. Helle then punched. I would think that one drunk person who was getting hit by another drunk may not realize just how much damage he did when he had the chance to strike back. I doubt that this entire fight lasted more than 5 minutes before the guys realized what was going on and stopped. IF Helle and Ramirez were really some sort of "well trained killing machine" produced by the corps they could have taken this a lot further.
From the article it sounds like Helle and Ramirez did try to pay for the medical expenses. They dont think that what happened should have happened, but it did. I dont see how sending them to jail or kicking them out of school helps anything. I think the whole thing has been taken too far. I understand that no parent likes to see their child beaten after a stupid drunk night. But please understand that two other families don’t want to see their sons in jail either for something that could be settled out of court.
Lastly, I think the behavior of all 3 boys involved is not a reflection of Texas A&M or the corps and that we need to stop making it one. This could be any 3 boys at any college. As far as how the school handled it, that is a separate subject. I just don’t see how posting pictures of all three boys in the paper is justice.

John should focus his effort on making things right on his own, administering his own Texas justice. For some reason, something like this happening at A&M doesn't surprise me. Maybe the school will care if all Non corp folks don't go to the school. They'll care about their tuition money going away.

Becky:

"I think the behavior of all 3 boys involved is not a reflection of Texas A&M or the corps and that we need to stop making it one."

You're missing the point, Becky. No one is saying that a drunken fight is a reflection of A&M, the big picture is that justice has not been served. Zach's eye will NEVER be the same again, and none of us have any clue what he has gone through.

Is a semester's vacation and probation from the Corps the punishment for committing such an act? The answer is most definitely "no".

Now you say, "Well the two cadets tried to settle for $50,000 and were turned down by the Corcorans." Ahh, you have a point. However, you should ask yourself, "Is $50,000 enough to just sweep this situation under the rug and call it a day, just because the parents of the cadets don't want to see their boys in prison?" The answer is STILL no, Becky. The punishment does not equal the crime, look it up.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

You see, Becky, you seem to be all too focused on the fight itself and who was to blame. We all know from reading the article that Zach smarted off to one of the cadets which helped instigate the fight. But that doesn't mean he needs to get his face smashed in, to the point where his eye is screwed up for life. You act like he got what he deserved. He smarted off so he deserved to get double teamed and his face smashed in and a messed up eye and several surgeries and permanent damages, while the aggressors came out completely clean, just a slap on the wrist.

Look at it from an adult and legal standpoint please. If this was just a barfight, that would be one thing. But you obviously don't get that these punks came off untouched. The aftermath and the lack of justice being served is the most important and absolutely sickening aspect of this situation. If you don't have the intelligence to understand that, then you don't have any business posting on here.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

TO Trent : Finally, someone else is getting the "real point " to this article !!!!!

AMEN to Trent!! I don't think the entire Corp is rotten, and I don't think this article implies that. A&M is filled with great kids that probably think this situation is unacceptable (for them or their friends)! Nobody is holding all Aggies responsible for what a couple of thugs (who just happened to be in the Corp)did. You would think they would want to get rid of them, not give them a free ride. What this article is all about is that JUSTICE was not served by the University or the Brazos county court system. INITALLY everyone thought they had a case, until someone probably did not want this kind of publicity associated with their school (lets make it go away). If this would not have been 2 guys in the Corp fighting, it would had been prosecuted by the DA. I hold the people in charge of this case to a higher standard. Zach deserves his day in court. I'm sure whoever got this case dismissed thought the Corcorans had a good chance of winning. Then what?? it would have been posted on the front page of the Eagle. OH MY, something bad happened in Aggieland! To Becky, somethings you can't replace with a check! It is admirable that the Corcorans couldn't be bought off. As a former Aggie I am embarrassed to think these kids got away with this. That is more of a black mark on our school than
making the kids accountable for their behavior. God bless you Zach.

Jonathan,

Please stop comparing your toy soldier frat with actual military organizations. Frankly it's offensive.

I would like to make a point clear to those who say it was just a fight. It started as just a fight, until Steven Ramirez pinned Zach on the ground and proceeded to suffocate him. Leah Cook, the only one NOT drinking that night, testified that Zach's face was turning blue. During this Eddie was hitting Zach in the face. His face then caved in, but Eddie continued to hit. This is assault. There is no way Eddie could not have felt the bones give way, yet he continued to hit even as Zach was crying out for him to stop. That is intent to cause bodily harm.

As to the incident with Grant, Michelle I don't know where you heard your story, but you do not seem to have the right of it. Grant called someone he knew in the corps to find Eddie. That person told Eddie that Grant was looking for him, and Eddie talked to Grant on the phone. Eddie told him to come to the quad parking lot. Eddie and 8 other corps members were waiting for him when he got there. Tell me, what kind of person gets into two fights in one night? He could have easily just stayed in his room. Luckily, Grant knows when enough is enough and only left him with a black eye.

About Jim Kuboviak, he should be ashamed of himself. During the conversation with my parents about dropping the case, he proceeded to yell at my mother and threaten Zach with public intoxication because he was "so drunk that he was throwing up all over the emergency room". Zach had a concussion, along with severe pain and vertigo. It is my personal impression that Kuboviak was taking out his frustration on my parents for not being able to prosecute or give us any answers. I also think that is why he is not running for re-election. I hope these are the reasons because I would not like to think an elected official would act this unprofessionally.

I do not think badly of the corps as a whole or A&M. I think the leaders of the corps and A&M higher-ups were too worried about litigation against the university from the defendants to pursue the sanctions against them. I think the Department of Student Life, which is supposed to enforce the Texas A&M student code, works in the interest of the university instead of its students. I think that pressure came from somewhere powerful to drop the prosecution. I think the justice system failed my brother, like we thought it may.

I was not there that night, but I wish I were so that maybe this whole situation might have been avoided.

Way to go Corcorans and Mr. Knight for exposing the corruption in our system of justice!! It takes guts to print it. I can't imagine anyone at the Eagle running with it. They are too afraid of the consequences. Everyone in our society is afraid to stand up for what is right, for fear of being sued or criticized. Discipline in our educational system is gone, kids run the show. Teachers can't teach because they are threatened by parents that think their precious children are perfect. Kids learn that early (you cant touch me, I will do what I want.) I am apalled what I see in some of our youth. Who is instilling those values in them, we are! TV, Movies, Music,Video games, ect., all teach our children something. It is a shame that this case has to be tried with a few comments on the internet. It should be in a courtroom. Let the winner or winners prevail the "American Justice Way". Keep fighting for your justice Mr. and Mrs. Corcoran. God bless you Zach.

I am John Corcoran’s sister. For two years I have watched the pain and anguish suffered by his family as this case unfolded. Zach has undergone two serious surgeries to repair the damage to his eye yet still suffers some permanent restricted eye movement. My brother and his family have sought only one thing; they have sought justice. Initially the University appeared to render that justice in accord with their Student Conduct Code related to physical abuse (http://student-rules.tamu.edu/rule24.htm). After the University hearing, my brother and his family were told that Helle and Ramirez had been suspended for a semester and would be forced to leave the Corps. However, these sanctions against the assailants disappeared and an explanation was never given though my brother made numerous requests for such, even appealing to the University President and Board of Regents. When John’s family tried to appeal Zach’s case through the Brazos County criminal justice system, they met with a similar dead end. The Grand Jury indicted Helle and Ramirez on misdemeanor "A" assault charges, which have a maximum penalty of a $2,000 fine and a year in jail. The Brazos County District Attorney Bill Turner then sent the case to the office of County Attorney Jim Kuboviak. Even after making the rare move of assigning a special prosecutor, Kuboviak then informed John and his family that he was dismissing the case. On the "Motion to Dismiss" filing, Kuboviak wrote "in the interest of justice." Like my brother and his family, I do not believe that the decisions of either the University or the Brazos County Attorney were “in the interest of justice.” I am left wondering how such injustice could happen in state institutions created to educate and protect us. In the future I know that I will become more knowledgeable and active in the election of state officials in whose hands resides the power to impact our lives so incredibly.

I think Blake probably has the story straight! Photo 6 on the slide show, shows bruising to the neck where he was probably being held. Those pictures taken in the ER reflects serious trama to the face and neck. Turning blue is not good!!. I think I would throw up too, drunk or not, with that kind of trama to my head. This case seriously needs to go to court!!

Come on folks..This isn't a story about degrading the Aggies or the majority of the Corps of Cadets. It is a story how the administration of the University AND the Brazos County criminal justice system dropped the ball. Simply put "it is what it is"!! What a shame the Corcorans have had to spend so much money and emotional trama bringing it to light. I would hope that if any reason prevails, the court system has to take another look at this case.

As the father of sons in the military, and a former Aggie, I find this case discusting and shameful. Those 2 boys are not representative of my school. If the Corps wants to continue with the perception of excellence, like it once was, the Administration and DA need to stand up and see they are punished appropriately. Let's not give A&M a blackeye as well.

McBride is the poster child for dumbf*ck Aggies. "liable story" Good gawd almighty McBride are you really a Grau8 of ATM? What a freaking Idiot. I can imagine what Patti Cake looks like!

McBride use dictionary.com the next time you use words with multiple syllables. Why you can even right click on the cute little red dots to figure out how to look less like a dumazz!

Whether you like A&M, hate A&M, or just don't care one way or another, you have look at the way this case played out and decide for yourself. First charges were pressed, then not enforced. Then Brazos County pressed charges, prepared a case, then right before trial it was dismissed "in the interest of justice." HEY PEOPLE, what is going on here. What does that mean??? I'm sure the Corcorans and a lot of other people whould like that explained to them. Blake you explained the situation well for your brother and family, good for you. Your parents must be proud of your unbiased, truthful stand. Let's put aside our feelings for the Corps, the school and the criminal justice system, and try to figure this out for Zach's sake. It's never to late to right a wrong.

Hey guys, don't make the Aggie jokes a reality. These 2 guys need to be kicked out of the Corps and sent to "fight" with the real soldiers. See how well their sorry asses would do among the Marines (ask dove)!! Leave the good men in the Corps alone. They did not smash Zach's face in, and probably don't think much of this situation. Anyone with half a brain (no pun intended), understands this was more than a fight, it was an assault. Call it what it is, and prosecute it as such. No reasonable person holds the students of A&M or the Corps responsible for this act. The system is not perfect and sweeping it under the rug, and dismissing the case, makes the University system and judicial system look bad. We are all above that..KM

nate the snake maybe you would like it if someone beat your ass. You are a stupid piece of shit and need a dose of reality

i think it's obvious that a big money donor stepped in at some time. universities always buckle if one of their big donors threatens to stop donating. it would be interesting to try and find out who that big donor is. look for relationships to the 2 boys. the guy probably comes from the same home town or is related somehow.

It really doesn't matter what happened, University or DA blunder, it just needs to be fixed. Zach and the Corcorans need to get their day in court. Justice was not served here. Let a jury decide what needs to happen. That is the American way.

This is the type of story Americans fear: a look at a corrupt legal system. If you read between the lines it sounds like Brown will let the Corcorans know what went down after the statute of limitations have expired. It sounds like Zach and family aren't interested in money, but they should probably sue A&M for the simple fact that they would be able to depose the parties involved under oath.

This is just despicable. Man, I hate it when justice is not served. If A&M admins and/or donors were worried about tarnishing the A&M name, they should not have caved in under pressure to sweep this under the rug. Hiding things never works out in the long run. Just ask those former Enron execs.
And those comments from the lawyer Brown were heartless - transfer to another school.
And Mask, "I really hope the Corcoran family would get counseling," "Everyone needs to just walk away."
What a bastard. Well I guess you have to be a bastard lawyer sometimes, when people pay you a lot of money to win a case.
I hope the legal system will finally have the balls to do what A&M admins and the Corp did not do. And hopefully it is something more than probation. Hope you recover Zach and hoping for karma too...

Dear Wes,

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful commentary. No in fact I would not like it if someone beat my ass. That was the point of my earlier postings. I don't want to get into a fight with anyone, including you.

In case it involved too much deduction for you, I will break it down so that I don't have to rely on your obviously superior reading comprehesion.

My theses:
1) Don't get into fights
2) Avoid situations where you would get into fights
3) Don't get drunk around people you don't know
4) Don't talk trash to people you don't know (especially if it is two huge dudes)
5) If you get into a fight, fight dirty so as to win (which includes running away)

I am not addressing the true 'point' of this article. I am addressing the root cause of the original confrontation. The point of this article is that one side of the story has been told. The University refuses to tell its side of the story for legal reasons. The problems that have come about regarding the punishment stem from the root cause of the original confrontation. I think Becky has hit the nail on the head. The family of this poor guy wants to DESTROY the lives of these two young men who got into a drunk fight with their son. They tried to make restitution, and family refused. I'm not saying I wouldn't behave in exactly the same manner as the family, but you are going to have a real difficult time getting these two guys to serve hard prison sentences when it is still in question as to who threw the first punch. Do these two guys deserve to have their lives destroyed over a drunk fight? I don't think so. Make no mistake getting kicked out of a univeristy (and the corps) for violence would destroy these young men's lives. They would not be admitted to another college and would find it difficult to get work. Did they take the fight to far? Probably so, but I tell you it is tough to maintain self control once somebody hits you in the face and I don't think it was their intent to cause serious bodily harm to this guy, at least I hope not.

"According to Mask, both Helle and Ramirez lost weight and allowed their grades to drop after the fight. They endured constant anxiety, Mask says, from the fear of criminal prosecution and punishment from the university."
Could it be that the reason these men lost weight, and their grades declined was due to the fact they felt guilty for their actions, hence they are guilty of assault?
I'm not in the corps, but have many friends that were. Corps members do tend to be more aggressive, and I keep clear of ones I don't know.
J
Fightin Aggie Class of 2009

"Nate the Snake" you're an idiot.

"Do these two guys deserve to have their lives destroyed over a drunk fight? I don't think so."

Did Zach deserve to have a messed up eye for the rest of his life?? I don't think so, but he's stuck with it no matter what. The family is not trying to "DESTROY" the cadets' lives, they just want justice. There is a punishment out there for the crime those cadets committed. Just like if you're caught speeding: you get a ticket, pay a fine, insurance fees go up, and it's on your driving record. That is the consequence for getting a speeding ticket. I'm not positive what the consequence is for what the cadets did, but I am positive there is one, and I'm positive it hasn't even been mentioned seriously yet.

"They tried to make restitution, and family refused."

Yeah, because it is not the proper punishment. Zach didn't get off easy with his eye, why should the cadets get off easy?

"I don't think it was their intent to cause serious bodily harm to this guy, at least I hope not."

Once, again Nate, you're an IDIOT. How many fights do you know of that end with the injury Zach has sustained?? Yeah, you're right buddy, their intent was not to cause serious bodily harm. WOW you are so dumb.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

Oh, and I almost forgot about Patti up there at comment 23.

"Zach can't get over it and get on with his life."

How well would you be able to get on with your life if you only had 70% movement of your eye, and you had to go have surgery after surgery because it was so messed up? Not to mention the two guys that did this to you never got anything resembling a penalty and are back at school. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, Patti. It's time to act like an adult.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

I am a senior in the Corps of Cadets, I have heard my share of nightmarish stories, conspiracy theories, and harsh comments made at the expense of the Corps and my university. Every university has its share of skeletons, I believe that A&M and specifically the Corps are under the spotlight most often because we are a unique institution. There are maybe 2-3 schools in the nation that have a military organization but are not an outright military academy. I know that you cannot ask for the Corps' name to be separated from the actions of its cadets. Everyone is told that just by joining you carry a legacy and a name that you must protect. Quite frankly the two cadets in the story and the ones listed year by year above have failed us greatly and drug our name through the dirt. They are not the first and I wish I could say the would be the last, but I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that my time here was not ill served. The "shit list" above would pale in comparison If you made a similar bulleted list of the corps' accomplishments, the leaders it has produced, and the overall positive impact it has had on the lives of countless numbers who have passed through its program. In my time here me and my buddies have raised thousands of dollars for the March of Dimes donated to us on the streets of Houston, I have helped change a sports arena into a shelter for Katrina victims, and several other examples of service to the community. Of course most of those stories don't make good news or pull 77 comments on one article. If you saw a headline detailing another triumph of the corps you would give little consideration and turn the page. Theres nothing wrong with that we don't care about making the news as some kind of "heroes." But don't make us out to be racist he-man woman haters that go around beating on each-other because we have nothing better to do. ~David Juel Class of '08

~90% of these comments are irrelevant, stop having opinions.

Dear Trent Seastrunk, Baylor University:

First of all, again thank you for your commentary. You make cogent and intelligent arguments that we have come to expect from the fine institution that is Baylor University. Seriously, who signs their name like that? Are you a school official?

At any rate, I am glad to see that you have the maturity to discuss this subject without reverting to childish name calling.

Did I say anything about Zach deserving to walk around with a serious medical disability? No. I feel sorry for the guy. I sincerely wish the whole incident never happened. You are focusing on the fact that Zach came away with a disability. If he wasn't seriously hurt, would there be an issue at all? The family wants their definition of justice, not a compromise. All we have heard is their side of the story. Therefore, we can't really decide why the university and the local DA's office is acting the way they are acting. It takes a little bit of maturity to realize that there are two sides to every story and that you shouldn't come to judgement before listening to both sides.

It seems from this story that the cadets and their families tried to make some restitution and it was refused. The article intimates that Zach's family only had the purest of intentions with this refusal, maybe there is more to the story. Perhaps they are seeking civil restitution and wants more money. Or perhaps they truly only seeking justice. Again, if it were my kids these two cadets beat up, I might just break down and take the law into my own hands.

I know of a lot of fights that end with broken skulls, broken bones, permanent disabilities and loss of life. Just take a quick look at the causes of death in the Harris County Medical Examiner's office. Granted it usually involves a weapon. Does it take a pretty severe beating to produce facial fractures? Yes. I think you are really only concentrating on the results of the fight, which I am really talking about only peripherally. I just don't think you can say that these guys were trying to cause permanent physical harm to this guy. I truly believe they were just trying to teach him a lesson or 'kick his ass.' Things can quickly go too far in a fight and even an untrained fighter could easily kill someone with there bare hands, life is very fragile, enjoy it.

Nate the Snake,
School of Hard Knocks

I am a senior female in the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M, but this is not my first school. I have gone to the #1 community college in the country, taken classes at NYU, Spent at year at a professional school in Providence RI, and spent a term in classes at Harvard University. I also grew up in NYC and between the above list and my younger haunts have seen and or been involved in many many fights. I have seen drunk fights and sober ones, vengeance raw and pridefully stupid. For an emergency room Dr. to say that the serious injuries sustained by Zach to not be from a "fight" is ludicrous I have watched a man die from a stupid fight that started over who makes a better shot one bar or another...and the man who was standing at the end had no intention of inflicting any serious harm things just go out of control. I have seen plenty of fights and drunk fights are generally the worst cause your brain isn't working fast enough to keep up with the stupid things you mouth is saying or noticing exactly how hard you punches are being thrown.
That being said I have seen more fights at almost every other college or university I have been at than those here in College Station. The amount of serious violence is just awe inspiringly low.
I am not saying we are a perfect university where nothing ever goes wrong but for Pete's sake take a look at us compared to other universities our size around the country. Do things go wrong? Yup! Do young independent drunk stressed out students act stupid? YUP!! Every damn time they go out. But should an entire university or organization be blamed for a couple people acting in bad form? NO! Might there have been a cover up of some kind? Maybe. Might this also be an issue of way too many lawyers and politicians doing the legal hide and seek BS that happens all too often leaving the truth completely hidden? Yup. And that goes for everyone being left in the dark not just the victim. Lawyers have a tendency to hide everything they can even if it makes the innocent look guilty, especially on college campuses.
I have seen more community, kindness, understanding, and openness here at A&M than anywhere else in the country. I am proud to call my self an Aggie and proud to where my ring. Any person who relinquishes hundreds of years of history and honor and tradition because one person or group screwed the pouch doesn't understand the reason he was supposed to be wearing the ring to begin with.
And as for the people on here who enjoy calling other people stupid or mean or anything else...First amendment not only gives them the right to say whatever they want but you to not read or listen to it. There for say your opinion and feel free to agree or disagree but stop trying to insult others into agreeing with you.

Grant = 6'4 245lbs 5% bodyfat Eddie = 5'9 buck seventy five if lucky
snake what happens when they go toe to toe? and Grant does not stop?
assault you dipshit

First of all, you're one to talk about how someone signs their name, "Nate the Snake". Am I supposed to take you seriously with a name like that?

As far as me referring to you as an idiot, you've earned that name with your ridiculous argument. Perhaps I'd treat you with more respect had you made a bad argument with a more petty situation, but this is someone's life we're talking about. Zach is permanently injured and I cannot stress that enough, which is why your argument is ridiculous.

"If he wasn't seriously hurt, would there be an issue at all?"

Probably not, that's the point. Again, he IS seriously hurt, whether it was intentious or not, that's the result, and the justice system in Brazos County and A&M was completely neglegent.

"The family wants their definition of justice, not a compromise. All we have heard is their side of the story."

No, the family wants justice as promised to them by the legal system, and they have the right to pursue that. You're right, we have only heard one side of the story because A&M and Brazos County won't present their side. The case was suddenly and mysteriously dismissed. They are obviously hiding something and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

"Perhaps they are seeking civil restitution and wants more money."

Dude, if that was the case, they would have taken the 50 grand. If that was the case, Zach wouldn't have made a big deal about seeing one of the cadets at the rec. Put pieces together, Nate. Your assumptions don't make sense.

"I know of a lot of fights that end with broken skulls, broken bones, permanent disabilities and loss of life."

Ok, I do too, and the assailants all got the fair punishment they deserved. They didn't get a slap on the wrist and get the big issues swept under the rug, which is why this entire situation of injustice is so ridiculous.

"I just don't think you can say that these guys were trying to cause permanent physical harm to this guy."

I agree. The cadets didn't have a plan in mind to produce the given result, but again, that's not the point. It STILL happened, and they STILL need to be punished accordingly. I believe they didn't want to permanently damage Zach the way they did, they just wanted to beat him up pretty bad. However, their intentions don't mean anything in this case, only the result (Zach's eye damage) and lack of result (sudden/mysterious dismissal of the case).

My point is, regardless of who threw the first punch or anything like that, the result is still the same, and this case didn't even get its chance in court. I mean, if the judge were to rule in favor of the cadets and they didn't get punished, that's one thing. But this case didn't even get that chance.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

This seems to be a nice piece of yellow journalism to bolster advertisement revenue in your paper.

Jessica you are right, the first amendment does give them the right to voice their opinion and whatnot. It also gives me the right to tell the person they are stupid and their argument is dumb. I'm sorry if you're offended by my passionate argument.

I can't speak for everyone that has been posting, but personally, I'm focused on the result the fight had on Zach and the lack of legal action taken to punish the two cadets. Some of you are all too wrapped up with the fight itself and how drunk or sober college students act. We all know that. It's common. What makes this story unique and sickening, is the lack of justice served. I've said it over and over, the injustice is what makes this situation so awful. I'm not saying Texas A&M is bad because it's full of aggressive cadets that will beat you up. I'm not saying that at all, nor do i believe that. I am saying that Texas A&M and Brazos County is bad because they suddenly and mysteriously dismissed this case and swept it under the rug. Which denied it from getting the attention and result that the Corcorans deserve.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

I am shocked at the lack of objective journalism shown in this article. I am a student at A&M minoring in journalism and I could not believe how one-sided this article is, not to mention remedial and poorly written. I realize that Zach may well have been the victim in this case, but this article puts a great deal of the blame on the Corps and its training, which is just ludicrous. To imply that it's the Corps' fault that these guys got drunk and got into a fight simply ridiculous. Things like this happen, more often outside the corps than in it.
Also, I am truly disheartened at the number of A&M students and alumni who claim that the corps does not deserve respect. I am a proud female member of the Corps of Cadets, and I take my position as "Keeper of the Spirit" and "Guardian of Tradition" very seriously. I have never missed a Silver Taps or Aggie Muster. The only students I ever hear "Howdy" from are my fellow members of the corps. When I say "Howdy" to regular students, I rarely get a reply. When the rest of the students are still sleeping soundly in their cozy beds, we are up training, and we do it because we love this organization. Those fantastic half-time drills that continue to amaze the world are only possible because of the dedication and discipline the corps has taught us. There are so many great life skills that the corps teaches cadets everyday that you can never truly understand unless you are a cadet yourself. The corps does great things for the university and the community (Ross Volunteers, March to the Brazos, Silver Taps Buglers, Fightin' Texas Aggie Band), and it is unfortunate that some people will allow this event to overshadow all those things. I seriously hope that people will realize how opinionated this article is, and not use it, or the unfortunate event, to characterize the corps.

Trent Seastrunk, Baylor University:

Its called a handle. You know something slightly witty so you don't have crazed psychos hunting you down when you sign stuff with your real name. Maybe you have heard of the Internet? I hope that you aren't signing your actual name so a bunch of half crazed Aggies don't show up at your front door looking for blood.

I guess where we are differing is that you are latched onto the fact that Zach suffered some pretty significant permanent damage and I am really only concerned with how the whole situation started. I think intent plays a large role in determining guilt. I completely agree that these two guys should suffer some consequences for what went down, but I think Zach has to stand up and acknowledge his responsibility in the incident.

And although I am fast losing my faith in the justice system, I still try to believe that the DA's offices in Texas are still acting in the interest of justice. You are claiming they are negligent without hearing their side. I want to believe (and thereby do believe) that the DA's office has a good reason for dropping the charges. I would certainly like to hear exactly what went on to bring about the dismissal (and if in fact there is an injustice happening, not only should the two cadets serve prison time, so should the DA).

I really think that the DA dropped the case because he/she didn't think he/she could get a conviction. Actually, according to the legal definition of assault, just the threat of violence is considered assault. Therefore, when Zach told these dudes he thought the better leave and was physically threatening them (again I don't know whether or not he was) then he committed assault (Class C). Then one could make the argument that the huge cadets were simply defending themselves. I guess I really don't want to believe that all of our government officials are corrupt.

Just in case you were wondering, a terrorist threat is a Class B misdemeanor (the same as indecent exposure).

Well, "Nate the Snake", that sure is a cute handle. Very creative.

"something slightly witty so you don't have crazed psychos hunting you down when you sign stuff with your real name. Maybe you have heard of the Internet? I hope that you aren't signing your actual name so a bunch of half crazed Aggies don't show up at your front door looking for blood."

First off, aren't a lot of these people trying to convince the world that aggies are not aggressive rednecks looking for trouble? You're doing a great job helping that image. And a bunch of aggies showing up wanting to fight because of what I said on this article is the least of my worries. It'd be funny to see that happen.

You're right, I guess neither of us will win this argument because we're dug in to our opinions pretty deep. However, I do agree, based on the article, that Zach was partially at fault for the drunken fight starting, but I still think the important part of this story is the lack of punishment issued to the cadets. There could be a lot of different arguments made as to who should get charged with what, but someone needs to give this case a chance. Give it a chance to make it to court and let the jury decide what happens. There's some seriously shady stuff going on involving this case and it points to A&M and Brazos County officials.

-Trent Seastrunk
Baylor University

If you tell a story over and over, after a while you may believe it to be the truth, enough so that you even try to convince others.
Leah Cook, SOBER! Amazing that she drank one for one with all the other three, but was still sober. In fact she denied her drinking, to the school to avoid being repromanded for breaking the "under age" drinking code. There were plenty of photos being passed around college station that showed her, Zach, Katherine and Reid doing alot of drinking that day, at alot of differnt bars.
Wasn't the name of the other guy, Leah's boyfriend Reid Aniston, not Ashton? And weren't he and Zach the only ones there that weren't minors? Who contributed and bought all the alcohol? That's a good question that needs to be addressed.
Didn't Leah, testify that she and Reid were approximately 15 feet away, on the porch.Not in a bedroom with the door shut. Someone should ask her, If there is a quest for the truth, and justice is indeed the reason for this article
Didn't Reid in fact join in the fight. So it was never a two on one, but a 2 on 2! I think he bragged on getting in several good hits to the back of Helle's head. Cocorans don't want anyone dwelling on that fact.
And I happened to see Zach, less than thirty days, after the incident on Facebook., and at Northgate drinking. He didn't look like his life was ruined. He was partying it up at northgate, and then at a halloween party. Opening weekend of deer season showed him with a big buck. I've never known of a "Blind Man" that could shoot a rifle and kill a deer.
Also, if he feared for his life, why did he approach and talk to Ramirez at the Rec? Very contradictory.
*And how about the whole story about Grant Corcoran being attacked by Helle on Campus. What was Grant doing on Campus? He ,didn't live there. He, and about 5 others, went and sought out Helle and Ramirez.Post #38 you were correct on this point.... Lets see,
If you thought 2 to 1 Off Campus (Which was really 2 on 2) was so unjust.. what do you think about